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Rabbi Yehoshua Scult's avatar

Bill (He said I should call him Bill as opposed to Prof. Dembski and has requested that I give short bio, so while I don't like talking about myself, I have to be a good guest on his page and follow through:)

My Name is Rabbi Yehoshua Scult. I was raised in Philadelphia Penn. and attended the Talmudic Yeshiva there till age 16. I then immigrated to the Holy Land to continue advanced studies in Talmud and Jewish law. I did not graduate high-school in America and my English writing skills are a little sub-optimal. So I will apologize up front if this comment is not written well. I made it my business to become very fluent in Hebrew and my English was neglected over the years. I studied at the most prestigious Talmud academies in the Holy land. I have authored 6 books (see here https://merhav.nli.org.il/primo-explore/search?query=any,contains,%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%98,%20%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%A2&tab=default_tab&search_scope=Local&vid=NLI&lang=iw_IL&offset=0&fromRedirectFilter=true) and have many more in the pipeline. While my main area of research is in and around authentic Jewish Law (HALACHA) but I also have a fascination with understanding the deeper meaning of Biblical Hebrew words. I have invested much time in this endeavor and the books i have printed show a lot of that research. I am presently 58, live in Jerusalem. I have 11 children. I have been a follower of Intelligent Design for 30 years and have read many works that Bill has penned over that time. My mentor Rabbi Avigdor Miller dedicated tens of his lectures to expounding on intelligent design in nature. Following below is a off-on-tangent comment that Bill invited me to post on this article, and I appreciate him allowing me to add my comment here)

First of all, let us appreciate and applaud Bill for this awesome article. The ability to explain complex concepts in a clear and concise format, understandable to the layperson, is truly the hallmark of an exact understanding of the subject by the writer And Bill has exhibited that in the extreme.

I am by no means a mathematician or statistician and am not qualified to comment and any of the science of the article even though he has made it very clear and understandable even to a layperson like myself. However, I just wanted to comment on something that is a side tangent, but since it is a subject that greatly interests me, Bill has encouraged me to write this short blurb.

Regarding the Hebrew word TAVNIT. Bill wrote is this word connotates “pattern”. And while indeed in modern Hebrew pattern is translated as TAVNIT, in classical, biblical Hebrew I feel that the prime meaning is slightly different. Now nothing I say here in any way dents in the slightest the message that he wants to confer, as he continues to show from Plato, so I’m strictly talking about the correct understanding of biblical Hebrew and nothing else.

There are many words in Hebrew that as to say are “parents”. Those are the words used to convey their **prime meaning** and then from that prime meaning other words are “born” like, as to say, children.

It is often very difficult, and sometimes impossible, to know who is the “parent” and who is the “child”. Many thousands of pages have been written about this subject and I’ve contributed a few dozen myself to this domain of the study of Hebrew words, and certainly, in the future, many more pages will be written.

Bill is correct that the word TAVNIT comes from the word to build (BONEH verb, BINYAN noun) but I think its **prime definition** is not exactly a “pattern” but is simply “form”, and form is appropriate as a child of "building" because anything that is built is going to possess form, and not a random pile of bricks falling on the street, which doesn’t have any real form.

This can be seen in Scripture (Deut 4:16, 17) that commands not to build any idols of any "form" whether that be a form of something on the earth or something in the sea or something in the heavens. Now you cannot say you should not build an idol that is “the pattern” of a bird or anything in the sea. It wouldn’t make sense, so, therefore, I would like to conclude that the word is primarily connotating “form”. But since a pattern is a subset of things that have form (I think we can say that not every form has a pattern to it in the strict sense of the word "pattern", but that every pattern certainly has some form to it.)

A second reference is a passage in Ezekiel (8:13) that mentions the TAVNIT of a “hand”. Now could you say “the pattern of a hand”? That really would make somebody scratch his head, looking at the speaker wondering what did he mean. But if you would say "the form of a hand" the listener would immediately understand correctly.

As I said Bill is correct that the word is based on the word "to build" or "a building" but let’s take a look at the word “son” (BEN) which is also very close to the verb or noun build or building. Which is the primary usage of the root BEIT NUN and which is the secondary that was it was derived from the primary? Hard to discern. It could be that “building” is the primary and “son” was derived from of the fact that the son builds the extension of his parents’ family. But it could be the opposite way around, that building something is based on the word “son” because a building is the “brainchild” of the architect. It isn’t easy to decide.

It’s interesting to note that the word TEIVA is also close to the word TAVNIT. The word TEIVA means something like is vesicle, like a box, that has a separation between its insides and the outside environment. Noah’s Ark is called the TEIVA. A vessel that has a boundary is what gives it its form, so it could be there’s a relationship, and maybe the words are "cousins". It is also interesting to note that the word TEIVA ends with the letters BEIT HEH which also is the word meaning “inside of something” because that is exactly what a box does and Noah’s Ark did. It was the ultimate “inside” of things, protecting the people inside from the water on the outside.

Many classic Hebrew grammar scholars (an interesting summation of the different opinions is given by Solomon Pappenheim in his book CHESHEK SHLOMO)

held to the opinion that (almost) every classical Hebrew word can be reduced to one letter (!!) which symbolizes its primary meaning.

Biblical Hebrew's words have very subtle, but extremely profound meanings. The space available here nor a thousandfold more would be capable of even scratching the surface of the is intriguing subject.

If we were forced to give the exact biblical Hebrew translation for a "pattern", it might be a daunting task to hit the nail on the head. It might be TAVNIT derived from form. But it could also be derived from the word SEDER, which which connotates order. Or possibly from the word KETZEV which is like a equal beat of something or possibly from the word DFUS which means a mold.

There is no question that biblical Hebrew was intelligently designed. It exhibits all the attributes of an entity not only intelligently designed, but of **something ingeniously designed** and I think we should all appreciate it. It should be noted, though, the disturbing fact that modern Hebrew does not fully do justice to the biblical “father” and when we are studying these questions we should always investigate Scripture for the original and authentic meaning.

Again I appreciate Bill allowing me to post my comment here. Rabbi Yehoshua Scult, RabbiYScult@outlook.com

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The Deuce's avatar

Hi Dr. Dembski,

I sometimes see Darwinists/materialists deny specification in biology. For instance, given an example of some structure with irreducibly complex function, they'll argue that humans have a tendency to project significance and intentionality onto things that do not actually possess it. A frequent example they give is the tendency of people to imagine faces and other images in clouds. You responded to one example of this line of thought here: https://evolutionnews.org/2022/09/rosenhouses-whoppers-seeing-patterns-in-biology-is-like-seeing-dragons-in-the-clouds/

But this is self-defeating. We don't consult a meteorologist on how a cloud came to resemble a face that someone imagined. We don't look for a historical explanation of how the face got there. The face doesn't need a "scientific" explanation, because its origin is in the imagination of the person seeing it, which they are only mentally projecting onto the cloud.

To deny specification in biology is thus to deny that there is anything objectively real in biology that needs to be explained, whether by intelligent design or Darwinian mechanisms or anything else. It is to deconstruct all of biology itself as a sort of illusion that we human beings are projecting onto the world. And since human beings are ourselves part of biology, it ultimately entails that we exist only as an illusion we are having of ourselves, which is obviously circular and nonsensical.

The problem for materialists, however, is that things in biology are specified precisely because they have function. From living organisms as wholes down to the individual organs they possess down to sub-cellular structures, life is absolutely rife with things that can only be described and defined via the teleological language of function, and that are only of explanatory interest because of that fact. But the concept of function is inseperable from intentionality and as such is logically irreducible to blind mechanism.

When we talk about objects designed by humans, the function of an object refers to what that object was *meant* or *intended for* by the person who designed it. An example would be the words written on a page, such as this comment. By themselves, the words are mere ink splots on a piece of paper or pixels on a screen. However, they have a *function*, namely to communicate a meaning that the writer (in this case myself) had in mind when designing the arrangement or pattern of the letters in his mind. Speaking in purely physical terms, the words that appear on a page are nothing more than the sum of their parts. The ink blots or pixels are not doing anything above and beyond the normal operation of physical laws governing their parts. The function comes *purely* from the writer's intentions in arranging them.

When you read my comment and understand it, you are doing what you explained above: "Next, an intelligence at the receiver, witnessing the signal, draws on its prior learning and knowledge to spot a familiar pattern. The pattern thereby becomes recognizable. And provided the signal is also improbable, the signal is inferred to be designed." That is, your mind reconstructs the same abstract pattern that was in my mind when I arranged the letters, and from there you ascertain the meaning or *function* for which I so arranged them.

The same is true of human artifacts in general, such as the pocket watch discovered in a field from Paley's famous thought experiment. Physically speaking, a watch is reducible to the sum of its parts - bits of metal and glass following the same deterministic laws as any other bits of metal and glass. However, the watch has a *function* of telling time by virtue of that being what its creator *intended* it for when coming up with the abstract design in his mind to carry out that intention. When you encounter the stopwatch in a field and ascertain that it is designed and has a function of telling time, you are (just as when reading and understanding someone's writing) reconstructing the abstract pattern that the designer of the stopwatch had in his mind when constructing it and the intentions for which he did so.

Note that you can have a PARTIAL reconstruction of the abstract pattern in the designer's mind without grasping all of it. For instance, you may ascertain that the watch was designed with a function, but not be sure what that function is. Or you may ascertain that it was intended to tell time, but not know *why* the designer wanted to keep time (eg to remember his anniversary) or what have you. The same is true for interpreting writing. You may not understand the language but recognize it as writing, or understand the text but not all the subtext, etc.

Returning to the subject of evolution and specification, the above explains why Darwin used "natural selection" to name the primary explanatory device of his theory, and why he defined it in terms of an analogy to animal breeding by humans. As mentioned previously, materialists cannot afford to deny consistently that biological function (and hence specification) is objectively real, because to do so is to reduce all of biology, including ourselves, to a subjective illusion projected by human beings, which leaves nothing objectively real to be explained by Darwinian evolution in the first place!

Darwin's idea was that if he could come up with a mechanism that was *analogous* to human design (such as animal breeding), then he could naturalize the concept of function without eliminating it. His implicit reasoning was something like:

P1) Natural selection "selects" things analogously to how human breeders do.

P2) Human breeders and other designers confer real function to things when they select them according to their designs.

C) Therefore natural selection confers real function too when it "selects" them.

But all analogies break down when pressed far enough, and the problem with this is that the analogy between natural selection and human design breaks down *on exactly the point that allows human design to confer function onto objects*.

As described above, what gives a human artifact function (whether it be to confer the meaning of a written work or to tell time or what have you) is the abstract pattern and the *intentions* in the mind of the designer for implementing that pattern. But natural selection doesn't HAVE any intentions or thoughts about abstract patterns. That's what is meant by the "natural" part.

In fact, natural selection isn't even a concrete entity such that it *could* have thoughts and intentions or do anything at all for that matter. It's an abstraction - a "useful fiction." It is often said that Darwin provided the mechanism of evolution, but this isn't really true. Darwinism is an EXPLANATORY mechanism, not a physical mechanism. It goes without saying that whatever *physical* mechanisms were involved in, say, the origin of the bacterial flagellum must have been radically different from whatever physical mechanisms were involved in the origin of the mammalian eye. When people say that the flagellum and the mammalian eye both came about by natural selection, it doesn't mean that they came about the same physical mechanisms. It's shorthand for saying that however these two things came about, they and their "function" were unintended. Darwinism is really a catch-all philosophical framework for trying to explain away intention without explaining away function, but function and intention are logically inseparable.

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